Monday, October 22, 2007

There's A Problem When You Start Painting With A Broad Brush

There are those who have called our firefighters, "thugs." Many of these same bloggers have wrapped themselves in "Support Our Troops" or "If You're Not With Our President, You're Against America" rhetoric.

There's a problem, though, when you start painting with too broad a stroke. Your edges start to blur and your message becomes unreadable.

Vicki McKenna would have us believe that all of those who would draw a public paycheck should write her a Thank You note. Some of the state's bloggers would have you believe that because some public employees didn't show proper deference for their divise message last Wednesday then there is an open season on all public employees.

Part of the problem with that argument is listed below. Just a part. Someone should be writing Thank You notes. It's not the firemen and women who were on the Square last week.

Wisconsin LODD List as of 06/19/2007
Stoker Michael Koerper Milwaukee F.D. 11/18/1879
Captain Frederick Groskopf Milwaukee F.D. 11/10/1884
Pipeman George Wolf Milwaukee F.D. 02/20/1885
Pipeman Herman Lecher Milwaukee F.D. 03/15/1888
Driver Richard Langton Milwaukee F.D. 03/15/1888
Pipeman Eduard Noonan Milwaukee F.D. 02/28/1889
Fireman Albert Mevis Waukesha F.D. 09/15/1891
Pipeman Henry Peddenbruch Milwaukee F.D. 10/28/1892
Truckman Charles Stahr Milwaukee F.D. 10/28/1892
Pipeman Thomas Sullivan Milwaukee F.D. 12/27/1892
Asst. Chief August Jannsen Milwaukee F.D. 04/09/1894
Captain Archie Campbell Milwaukee F.D. 04/09/1894
Lieutenant Frank McGurk Milwaukee F.D. 04/09/1894
Lieutenant John Farrell Milwaukee F.D. 04/09/1894
Lieutenant James Freeman Milwaukee F.D. 04/09/1894
Pipeman Thomas Morgan Milwaukee F.D. 04/09/1894
Pipeman Alphines Ries Milwaukee F.D. 04/09/1894
Pipeman Fritz Koschmieder Milwaukee F.D. 04/09/1894
Pipeman John Winney Milwaukee F.D. 04/09/1894
Pipeman Adolph Meyer Milwaukee F.D. 09/06/1894
Pipeman Michael Hackett Milwaukee F.D. 02/21/1899
Lieutenant Hubert Zanders Milwaukee F.D. 04/19/1899
Pipeman Edward Haley Milwaukee F.D. 07/18/1899
Pipeman Edward Kinsella Milwaukee F.D. 02/19/1902
Truckman Christian Mathison Milwaukee F.D. 02/19/1902
Captain Andrew White Milwaukee F.D. 02/03/1903
Chief Engineer James Foley Milwaukee F.D. 02/04/1903
Pipeman Thomas Droney Milwaukee F.D. 02/04/1903
Truckman Edward Hogan Milwaukee F.D. 02/04/1903
Fireman Emil Birr Sheboygan F.D. 04/13/1904
Lieutenant Henry Weidner Milwaukee F.D. 08/08/1904
Fireman Henry A. Schmidt Menomonie F.D. 09/30/1904
Lieutenant William Morgan Milwaukee F.D. 02/24/1905
Lieutenant Charles Dressel Milwaukee F.D. 05/19/1905
Fireboat Pilot Hugh Clark Milwaukee F.D. 09/27/1906
Captain Henry Schmidt Milwaukee F.D. 02/17/1907
Driver John Mehan Milwaukee F.D. 08/20/1907
Truckman Paul Schroeder Milwaukee F.D. 05/15/1908
Asst. Chief James Gunning Milwaukee F.D. 02/13/1909
Lieutenant Nathan Whaley Milwaukee F.D. 02/13/1909
Pipeman John Craft Milwaukee F.D. 02/13/1909
Pipeman Leonard Curtis Milwaukee F.D. 02/13/1909
Pipeman Joseph Bielinski Milwaukee F.D. 02/13/1909
Pipeman Otto Nimmer Milwaukee F.D. 02/15/1909
Captain John Hennessey Milwaukee F.D. 01/03/1910
Lieutenant Dominick O’Donnell Milwaukee F.D. 01/03/1910
Pipeman William Foley Milwaukee F.D. 01/03/1910
Pipeman Joseph Sullivan Milwaukee F.D. 01/03/1910
Truckman Alfred Krimmer Milwaukee F.D. 10/29/1910
Driver Fred Clark Milwaukee F.D. 03/15/1911
Captain Jacob Hentz Milwaukee F.D. 03/24/1911
Lieutenant John Houlahan Milwaukee F.D. 03/24/1911
Driver Richard Burke Milwaukee F.D. 03/24/1911
Pipeman Fred Eichhorn Milwaukee F.D. 03/24/1911
Driver Louis Hammond Milwaukee F.D. 03/25/1911
Pipeman Fred Glander Milwaukee F.D. 12/25/1911
Asst. Chief Edward Hoffman Racine F.D. 11/15/1912
Captain John Doyle Milwaukee F.D. 10/26/1913
Pipeman Walter Freytag Milwaukee F.D. 10/26/1913
Pipeman John Fenske Milwaukee F.D. 10/26/1913
Pipeman William Graf Milwaukee F.D. 10/26/1913
Chief’s Driver George Clausen Milwaukee F.D. 10/26/1913
Driver Max Flaeschel Milwaukee F.D. 10/26/1913
Truckman Timothy Dwyer Milwaukee F.D. 10/26/1913
Pipeman August Pagel Milwaukee F.D. 11/05/1913
Truckman Stephen Hecht Jr. Milwaukee F.D. 05/08/1914
Captain Arnt Nessheim Milwaukee F.D. 08/27/1916
Lieutenant Dennis Moroney Milwaukee F.D. 08/27/1916
Pipeman Edwin Falch Milwaukee F.D. 12/09/1920
Pipeman Wenzel Wasicek Milwaukee F.D. 03/21/1921
Private Frank Hart Milwaukee F.D. 01/21/1922
Private Mathias Wambach Milwaukee F.D. 05/24/1922
Private Anton Krafcheck Milwaukee F.D. 05/24/1922
Private Paul Winsauer Milwaukee F.D. 05/24/1922
Fireman/Mechanic Charles E. Brehm Beloit F.D. 09/29/1923
Fireman Edward Lichtfus Janesville F.D. 03/02/1925
Lieutenant Thomas Hanlon Milwaukee F.D. 04/21/1926
Private Stanley Strzeminski Milwaukee F.D. 04/21/1926
Private Ambrose Skorzewski Milwaukee F.D. 04/22/1926
Private Alvin Schultz Milwaukee F.D. 04/22/1926
Captain John Skorzewski Milwaukee F.D. 04/25/1926
Private George Liefert Milwaukee F.D. 05/01/1926
Captain Joseph Prier Milwaukee F.D. 12/28/1926
Private Herman Priebe Milwaukee F.D. 01/25/1929
Private Joseph Krimmer Milwaukee F.D. 05/17/1929
Private Joseph Hintz Milwaukee F.D. 12/02/1930
Private Gerald O’Brien Milwaukee F.D. 12/02/1930
Captain David Rosen Milwaukee F.D. 03/14/1931
Private Frank Dederich Racine F.D. 12/20/1932
Private Elmer Ryback Milwaukee F.D. 02/04/1933
District Chief Alfred Voelz Milwaukee F.D. 03/19/1933
Fireman Bernard McCaffery Waukesha F.D. 05/11/1934
Fireman Frank O'Brien Waukesha F.D. 05/11/1934
Master Mechanic Charles Clunie West Allis F.D. 05/17/1934
Private Joseph Toman Milwaukee F.D. 03/01/1935
Captain John Hass Racine F.D. 07/07/1936
District Chief Thomas Bresnahan Milwaukee F.D. 02/04/1937
Pipeman Adolph N. Habich Madison F.D. 06/10/1939
Pipeman Judson H. Holcomb Madison F.D. 06/10/1939
Private Alvin J. Stiller Milwaukee F.D. 10/07/1941
Lieutenant Michael Thiesenheusen Milwaukee F.D. 02/13/1943
Private Albert Dessecker Milwaukee F.D. 10/10/1943
Private Gordon Fischbauer Milwaukee F.D. 10/10/1943
Private Raymond Zepf Milwaukee F.D. 04/10/1945
Fireman Edward F. Groth West Bend F.D. 11/02/1947
1st Asst. Chief Patrick J. Brown Madison F.D. 11/30/1947
Private Paul Kojis Milwaukee F.D. 03/19/1948
Chief Harry Dinauer Oak Creek F.D. 03/22/1948
Superintendent John Cwiklinski Milwaukee F.D. 09/26/1948
Apparatus Operator Martin Keckler Kenosha F.D. 07/07/1949
Fireman Walter Pufahl Milwaukee F.D. 10/09/1950
Fireman Theodore B. Loef Kenosha F.D. 11/21/1951
Fireman Ray Kleiner Milwaukee F.D. 11/08/1952
Fireman Robert Skalla Milwaukee 01/03/1953
Fireman Peter Forecki Milwaukee F.D. 11/28/1953
Captain Leslie Hamilton Kenosha F.D. 01/17/1954
Lineman Wilbur Lemkuil Sheboygan F.D. 08/24/1954
Lieutenant Richard J. Everson Eau Claire F.D. 02/11/1956
Motor Pump Operator Art Edler Milwaukee F.D. 04/03/1957
Engineer James McCormick La Crosse F.D. 11/28/1957
Lieutenant John Sheahan Milwaukee F.D. 12/29/1957
Fireman William J. Finnane Janesville F.D. 11/11/1959
Fireman Adam Muenzenberger Milwaukee F.D. 11/10/1961
Captain Ernest Stanke Mayville F.D. 07/10/1962
Lieutenant Robert Uecke Milwaukee F. D 10/28/1962
Asst. Chief Edward V. Sciborski La Crosse F.D. 12/19/1964
Firefighter Daniel P. Parkinson Madison F.D. 01/08/1966
Firefighter Glen Thorpe New London F.D. 05/04/1966
Chief Lee Jentges Woodland F.D. 12/15/1967
Firefighter Robert Pickhard Richfield Vol. Fire Co. 12/30/1967
Firefighter Robert Kirschnik Lannon F.D. 03/29/1968
Apparatus Operator Raphael Pfeiffer Kenosha F.D. 11/21/1968
Chief Jack Lynch Helenville F.D. 12/28/1968
Firefighter Arnold Birr Horicon F.D. 02/10/1969
Firefighter Ralph Helminiak Milwaukee F.D. 01/18/1971
Firefighter Donald DeAngelis Kenosha F.D. 01/25/1973
Firefighter Harold R. Elwell Glendale F.D. 05/28/1973
Captain Robert P. Smerchek Caledonia F.D. 09/01/1973
Engineer Darrel L. Thorn Eau Claire F.D. 06/25/1977.
Firefighter Walter Nell Milwaukee F.D. 11/17/1977
Lieutenant Thomas W. Beckman Merrill F.D. 01/03/1978
Firefighter James E. Hanson Eau Claire Twp. F.D. 02/25/1978
Firefighter Thomas K. Sommer Dale Fire & Rescue 05/25/1978
Firefighter Timothy A. Schrameyer Grafton F.D. 07/15/1978
Firefighter James Born Adell F.D. 07/13/1980
Firefighter Robert Brooks Adell F.D. 07/13/1980
Motor Pump Operator Clyde Carre Racine F.D. 12/22/1980
Firefighter John Hogle Racine F.D. 12/22/1980
Lieutenant Marvin C. Strohman Marshfield F.D. 01/04/1981
1st Asst. Chief Gary C. Soper Argyle-Adams Vol. F.D. 03/11/1981
Firefighter James J. Lorbeck Wauwatosa F.D. 08/15/1981
Firefighter Lawrence R. Schampers Wauwatosa F.D. 08/15/1981
Firefighter Carl Lackey Waupun F.D. 12/31/1981
Firefighter Thomas L. Anderson Edgerton F.D. 01/09/1982
Asst. Chief Wayne C. Lake Silver Lake F.D. 02/16/1982
DNR Firefighter Donald L. Eisberner WI DNR 04/24/1982
Hon. Chief Floyd H. Kessler Cottage Grove F.D. 04/24/1982
Firefighter Barry V. Johnson Monona F.D. 07/11/1983
Firefighter John W. Hofacker Center Township F.D. 01/29/1984
Apparatus Operator Paul J. Dagenbach Kenosha F.D. 03/09/1984
Firefighter Arthur Weber Stratford F.D. 01/12/1986
MPO/Master Mechanic Larry Crabtree Beloit F.D. 04/18/1986
Firefighter Victor Weinzierl Frederic Rural F.D. 07/18/1986
Asst. Chief Bruce E. Hoffman Keenan-Georgetown Vol. F.D. 11/20/1986
Captain Richard H. Ziemer Glendale F.D. 03/16/1987
Firefighter Jeffrey J. Burclaw Rosholt Vol. F.D. 03/31/1988
Firefighter Harvey J. Ashmore Muscoda Vol. F.D. 10/10/1989
Chief Charles R. Mangerson Newbold Vol. F.D. 01/23/1989
Chief Richard A. Penning Kohler F.D. 11/05/1990
Chief John A. DuChateau Luxemburg Community F.D. 10/22/1991
Firefighter Dean O. Pucker Lamartine Vol. F.D. 07/31/1992
Fire Recruit Heather D. Dzioba Milwaukee F.D. 09/01/1992
Firefighter Gary C. Prueser Town of Russell F.D. 08/12/1993
MPO Victor J. DeLellis Town of Waukesha F.D. 01/18/1994
Firefighter Robert P. Waskiewicz Augusta-Bridge Creek F.D. 04/18/1994
Firefighter Lionel L. Hoffer Milwaukee F.D. 12/24/1994.
Firefighter Evan Buchholtz Poysippi Vol. F.D. 12/26/1994
Captain Bruce A. Cormican Black River Falls F.D. 08/22/1995
Firefighter William J. Zokan Milwaukee F.D. 01/13/1996
Firefighter Dennis D. McGarry Tomah Vol. F.D. 03/07/1996
Firefighter Raymond Emmerich Kimball Twp. F.D. 12/29/1996
Firefighter Robert W. Martinson, Sr. Conover Vol. F.D. 01/26/1997
Asst. Chief Gregory I. Quinn Westfield Vol. F.D. 11/22/1997
Fire Mechanic Richard L. Kalous City of De Pere F.D. 02/10/1998
Firefighter James Isberner Montello Joint Fire District 02/19/2001
Asst. Chief Dana Johnson Grantsburg Vol. F.D. 02/26/2001
HEO Ben DeStefanis North Shore F.D. 07/09/2001
Firefighter Dennis A. Dart Sugar Camp Vol. F.D. 11/02/2001
Chief Edward J. Weber Elkhart Lake Vol. F.D. 04/13/2003
Firefighter Carl J. Mack New Chester F.D. 04/22/2003
Firefighter Merlin J. Casey Mt. Horeb F.D. 05/10/2003
Firefighter Jeffrey A. Tiegs Amherst Fire District 11/24/2003
Lieutenant Brian Sanders Racine F.D. 06/18/2004
Asst. Chief William Weborg Ephriam Vol. F.D. 09/26/2004
Asst. Chief Michael J. Kilpatrick North Lake Vol. F.D. 10/07/2004
Chief Edwin Berg North Prairie Vol. F.D. 08/11/2005
Lieutenant Arnie Wolff Green Bay F.D. 08/13/2006
Firefighter Timothy J. Walk Marinette F.D. 11/02/2006
Firefighter/MPO David A. Rufer Monroe F.D. 06/12/2007


Anonymous said...

Yes Grumps and many of these people who have given the ultimate sacrifice would have been disgusted by the way firefighters treated average citizens last week.

You lose that part of it.

Just because you have chosen a noble profession does not give you the right to act like a jerk.

Which part of that don't you get?

Anonymous said...

And once again you FAIL to mention that the firefighters were honored by AFP.

It was their first order of business.

You are barking up a disengenuous tree here Grumps.

capper said...

Where is the honor in being told you're not worth the taxpayer's dollar and you should lose your job? And these are the same people that claim they support the troops?

Anonymous said...

Let's see where exactly has anyone suggested firefighters were not honored or that they should lose their jobs????

I'll wait for your response Capper.

(I'll clue you in, that is union rheotric not based in fact designed to inflame)

Come on Capper, back it up.

grumps said...

Fred, go back again and read the original post before you pop a gasket. The post is in response to the way firefighters were treated in the comments at Fraley's blog and Badger Blogger as well as Owen's insinuation that somehow the firefighters shouldn't have been in Madison.

That's the slander about which I wrote. It's not always all about you.

As to what the AFP folks said or did not say from the stage, I've been trying to tell you for years that lip service isn't enough. You can't say, "Support the troops," and then cut veterans' tuition benefits. You can't say, "We love the firefighters," and then say, "You public employees should be grateful for your jobs."

AFP had a lot to say and most of it was hurtful to someone. If you're going to bring that message to town you need to be prepared to have folks tell you your hat is full of... well, your hat is full of it.

Your message was, "We do not value what you do enough to give you a raise this year." how did you expect to be greeted?

Anonymous said...

Let me clue you in on something.

Telling a senior stretched to the limit that you are increasing their taxes again is hurtful.

Telling a family working like crazy to get ahead and having the state tell them they are not doing paying enough is hurtful.

Stealing hundreds of millions from funds Doctors put aside to help reduce malpractice costs is hurtful.

Asking the government to hold the line on spending and taxes when we are already the highest taxed state in the region is NOT hurtful.

Spending on this budget is up higher than inflation again. it always is.

Job growth is 58% government sector.

Our government and the salary and benefits given to state and local employees are growing faster than the ability the rest of us to pay for.

We pony up hundreds of thousands for bike paths we don't need and get liberals like you claiming we don't care?

Well screw that.

Liberals deride feeling through the checkbook yet they completely ignore everything we are already putting out.

Better than 12% of our income goes to state and local taxes. That is before the fed comes to take their share. How much do we have to give until you think we care enough?

Sorry Grumps the care card is played out.

The card you never get is the greed one. Greedy government programs, greedy government workers. Greedy democrats who think this 6.5% increase is an insult.

It ainn't playin with me.

grumps said...

Fred, you've wandered off the topic here. This was about firefighters and how there are some on the Right who have acted poorly toward them on their blogs.

There are plenty of posts to comment on the budget agreement around, Fred.

Anonymous said...

Umm no Jim, you implied that people did not care about firefighters because of their budget stance.

That brought the budget stance into play.

You are purposely trying to smear people who do not deserve it and I'm offended by it.

Other Side said...

Outraged! I tell you, I'm outraged. Hmmph, hmmph.

I seem to recall the original post was about CRG doing an open records request against firefighters who were seen with firefighting garb on.

That's your type of people, Fred. And it was done out of a sense of glib pettiness, without checking facts.


Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Other Side said...

btw: What's a disengenuous tree?

Anonymous said...

Thanks for mentioning my grandfather in your list of fallen firefighters.
Also, thank you for supporting our movement in Madison and in the great state of Wisconsin.
Frank Dederich

jill said...

I found my Uncle's name quit by mistake here. Can anyone here or the owner of this site give me a lead to any further information on him. Thank you so very much.

Driver Max Flaeschel Milwaukee F.D. 10/26/1913

grumps said...
This comment has been removed by the author.